Easy and cheap sanitiser

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young goat
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Easy and cheap sanitiser

Post by young goat »

All you need is bleach and water in a 1% solution !
To make a 1% solution, you'll need 1 part bleach for every 9 parts water.
eg 100ml to 900ml of water to make 1 litre, 50ml to 450ml water to make 500ml and so on.
Carefully pour the bleach into a spray bottle or jar first, then add the water.
If you need to make a larger amount of disinfectant solution, increase the amounts accordingly.

If you are concerned about using it on your hands you could rinse in plain water afterwards


edited to correct an error in the amount of water needed. The quantity I first stated would have resulted in a weaker than 1% solution
Last edited by young goat on Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:16 am, edited 2 times in total.

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aardvaark
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Re: Easy and cheap sanitiser

Post by aardvaark »

Don't know where you got this from Young Goat, but elderly folk rubbing this into their thin-skinned hands could have devastating consequences.
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young goat
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Re: Easy and cheap sanitiser

Post by young goat »

If it were neat 100% bleach I agree. I am saying use a 1 % (one percent) solution.

I 'googled "Bleach as a sanitizer and got the information from about 4 or 5 different websites
and paraphrased the information into my posting

Here are links to 4 of them
(In some cases the information is a long way down the page, which is why I extracted and paraphrased it)

https://www.verywellhealth.com/make-you ... ion-998274

https://urbansurvivalsite.com/hand-sani ... -your-own/

https://thedailycoin.org/2018/03/01/ble ... ducts-use/

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/he ... virus-tips

I personally have used a diluted bleach rinse on all my washing up for a very long time without any ill effects internally or externally.

UK food hygiene advice says that a 2% bleach rinse for washing up is safe. ( I found that out a long time ago but I cannot find the webpage now)

Milton is used for sterilising babies bottles and is not rinsed off before use. Do you know what it is made of ?
It is basically bleach.

Here is the answer from their website
https://www.milton-tm.com/en/consumer/faqs

Q.What is Milton Sterilising Fluid made of?
A.Milton Fluid is made of an aqueous solution of sodium hypochlorite and 16.5% sodium chloride. The Milton Fluid that is available to buy is a strength of 2% sodium hypochlorite.

Here are some more answers from their website
Q.Hypochlorite is bleach, which is toxic. Is the Milton Sterilising Fluid toxic also?

A.No. As stated above, toxicity in hypochlorites is due to the by-product of their decomposition, sodium chlorate. With the heavy ions removed Milton decomposes into water and a small amount of sodium chloride (salt).


Q.What are the instructions to use the Milton Sterilising Fluid or Tablets for home hygiene

A. You can use a solution made up with Milton Sterilising Tablets or Fluid to clean all objects, floors and surfaces in your home with no need to rinse. The solution is totally food safe and can be used to disinfect fridges, chopping boards, plastic containers with no need to rinse.
Use this simple dilution:
Dilute 90 ml (3 capful) of Milton Fluid or 3 Milton Tablets in 5 litres of cold water (dilution at 1.8% v/v). Surfaces are disinfected after 15 minutes. There is no need to rinse even for surfaces in direct contact with food. The disinfecting solution is effective for 24 hours. After wiping you can leave to dry.

There are more Q's and A's on their website that say or imply that 2% solution of sodium hypochlorite (ie bleach) is safe to ingest and safe to handle.
If you were assembling a babies bottle, or using a Milton solution for cleaning, your hands would come in contact with it however there are no instructions on the Milton website to say that it should not be allowed to come into contact with the hands or skin.

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Downlander
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Re: Easy and cheap sanitiser

Post by Downlander »

I know someone who actually drank a quantity of pure bleach to no ill effect. When eventually treated in A&E, drinking milk was the treatment.
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Badger
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Re: Easy and cheap sanitiser

Post by Badger »

Drinking milk is certainly the appropriate 'immediate action' before hospital treatment.
I can recall more than one instance where a mother has put bleach into a cup, left it on a worktop, and a child has drunk it.
A common cause at one time. What you must not do is induce vomiting by an emetic. Bleach is corrosive and in this case the vomiting and retching could tear a hole in the stomach wall, causing the contents, bleach and all, to spill into the abdominal cavity.
Now you have peritonitis as well and big surgery.
That's as I recall, but I'm probably out of date now. The big no-no is decanting bleach into a cup or glass with children around. Never, ever.
Last edited by Badger on Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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oobydooby
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Re: Easy and cheap sanitiser

Post by oobydooby »

And the grand award for using the correct English spelling of the word SANITISER rather than the Americanised spelling of substituing a "z" for the "s" goes to Young Goat! :madclap: :madclap: :madclap: :madclap: :madclap: :madclap: :madclap: :madclap: :madclap: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
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aardvaark
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Re: Easy and cheap sanitiser

Post by aardvaark »

I won't be using this! :-o Any little crack in your skin and it will sting like hell.

I think it's dangerous to post this kind of thing in an elderlies' message board. NONE of us are experts and the internet is full of all sorts of dubious and false 'advice'. It's bad enough having the threat of this virus which could kill us than adding to the dangers by messing about with bleach. You could end up in hospital.
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Stormy
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Re: Easy and cheap sanitiser

Post by Stormy »

Sounds entirely sensible to me and much less dangerous than you imagine, although I wouldn't advise getting it in your eyes! Take the word of a graduate chemist with several years laboratory experience at ICI and Dorman Long Chemicals!
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dryspell
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Re: Easy and cheap sanitiser

Post by dryspell »

Surely most old folk are too thick skinned by now for a drop of bleach to cause them any discomfort. :wink4:
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gazman
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Re: Easy and cheap sanitiser

Post by gazman »

Use of bleach in the Hong Kong SARS epidemic.

https://www.info.gov.hk/info/sars/en/useofbleach.htm


Please note that their recommendations concerning the strength of bleach are much more dilute than being suggested in this post.
And I did not see in the link any reference to washing hands or skin with it.

Bottled bleach may vary considerably in strength also, check the concentration and alter the dilution accordingly.
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Anya
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Re: Easy and cheap sanitiser

Post by Anya »

Putting bleach, however diluted, on the skin, is crazy. Can cause all sorts of irritations and thin the skin, making it more prone to infections.

Most especially as medical authorities all over the world keep stressing that against these viruses and other bugs, the best defence is soap and water.

Not anti-bacterial liquids that produce stronger and stronger immunity in dangerous bacteria. Just good old-fashioned soap and water. All supermarkets sell soap.

young goat
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Re: Easy and cheap sanitiser

Post by young goat »

Anya wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:43 am
Putting bleach, however diluted, on the skin, is crazy. Can cause all sorts of irritations and thin the skin, making it more prone to infections.

Most especially as medical authorities all over the world keep stressing that against these viruses and other bugs, the best defence is soap and water.

Not anti-bacterial liquids that produce stronger and stronger immunity in dangerous bacteria. Just good old-fashioned soap and water. All supermarkets sell soap.
Are you a qualified scientist or chemist or is that a personal opinion.?

I am not, but I resarched thorougly before I made my posting.

Soap and water is fine but all it does is 'float' it off the skin

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Re: Easy and cheap sanitiser

Post by Anya »

Of course I looked at the research, I always do and posted a link to a whole series of official recommendations on my thread about the power of soap and water.

Which KILLS viruses.

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Re: Easy and cheap sanitiser

Post by Lighthouse »

Yes, soap dissolves the fatty membrane of the virus and destroys it. Washing in plain water wouldn't be nearly as effective, but a soapy wash for the recommended length of time is very good.

I personally wouldn't use a bleach solution on hands unless I had nothing else and no soap...it could irritate the skin, especially if people are already prone to dermatitis and dryness. However dilute bleach would be ok as a disinfecting surface cleanser/sanitiser.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... infectants

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Re: Easy and cheap sanitiser

Post by gazman »

young goat wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:30 pm

Soap and water is fine but all it does is 'float' it off the skin
That is not true.
Washing with soap does mean the virus and other things are washed off your skin, that is true.
But soap actually damages the outer coating of the coronavirus.
That damage is substantial and prevents the virus from infecting people even if it remains on your skin.

Soap kills the coronavirus.


Taken from the link I gave re the SARS virus concerning the use of bleach.
bleach irritates mucous membranes, the skin and the airway, decomposes under heat or light and reacts readily with other chemicals, caution should be exercised in the use of it.
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Re: Easy and cheap sanitiser

Post by gazman »

young goat wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:47 am
.......

I 'googled "Bleach as a sanitizer and got the information from about 4 or 5 different websites
and paraphrased the information into my posting

Here are links to 4 of them
(In some cases the information is a long way down the page, which is why I extracted and paraphrased it)

https://www.verywellhealth.com/make-you ... ion-998274

https://urbansurvivalsite.com/hand-sani ... -your-own/

https://thedailycoin.org/2018/03/01/ble ... ducts-use/

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/he ... virus-tips
None of the links you gave say bleach can be used as a hand sanitiser.



The only link you gave that gives instruction for making a hand sanitiser at home is the second link and uses alcohol not bleach.


Everything else is about surface sanitisers NOT hand sanitisers.
"Europeanism is nothing but imperialism with an inferiority complex." Denis Healey

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Badger
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Re: Easy and cheap sanitiser

Post by Badger »

young goat wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:30 pm
Anya wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:43 am
Putting bleach, however diluted, on the skin, is crazy. Can cause all sorts of irritations and thin the skin, making it more prone to infections.

Most especially as medical authorities all over the world keep stressing that against these viruses and other bugs, the best defence is soap and water.

Not anti-bacterial liquids that produce stronger and stronger immunity in dangerous bacteria. Just good old-fashioned soap and water. All supermarkets sell soap.
Are you a qualified scientist or chemist or is that a personal opinion.?

I am not, but I resarched thorougly before I made my posting.

Soap and water is fine but all it does is 'float' it off the skin
DANGER
Causes severe burns and eye damage . . .wear protective gloves,eye and face protection . . .
IF ON SKIN: wash with plenty of soap and water . . .


From the label on my bleach bottle. No mention anywhere of dilution. And no, I am not a qualified scientist, etc., but with all due respect I do have a degree in English.
Sorry Keith -- your suggestion is no doubt well-intentioned but, I fear, dangerously misguided.
Best wishes.
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young goat
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Re: Easy and cheap sanitiser

Post by young goat »

young goat wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:09 am
All you need is bleach and water in a 1% solution !
To make a 1% solution, you'll need 1 part bleach for every 9 parts water.
eg 100ml to 900ml of water to make 1 litre, 50ml to 450ml water to make 500ml and so on.
Carefully pour the bleach into a spray bottle or jar first, then add the water.
If you need to make a larger amount of disinfectant solution, increase the amounts accordingly.

If you are concerned about using it on your hands you could rinse in plain water afterwards


edited to correct an error in the amount of water needed. The quantity I first stated would have resulted in a weaker than 1% solution

NOWHERE IN ABOVE POST DID I SUGGEST IT AS A HAND SANITISER, IN FACT I ADDED THIS CAUTIONARY ADVICE

"If you are concerned about using it on your hands you could rinse in plain water afterwards"

In subsequent postings I said I use it for a variety of purposes which(obviously) would mean getting it on my hands. I have no qualms about that

In my comments about Milton (which is basically bleach) I wrote this:-

"If you were assembling a babies bottle, or using a Milton solution for cleaning, your hands would come in contact with it however there are no instructions on the Milton website to say that it should not be allowed to come into contact with the hands or skin."

The information from the Milton website says it all.

I stand by my assertions that a 1% bleach solution will cause you NO HARM either internally or externally.

I woluld also remind you of this
Stormy wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 5:40 pm
Sounds entirely sensible to me and much less dangerous than you imagine, although I wouldn't advise getting it in your eyes! Take the word of a graduate chemist with several years laboratory experience at ICI and Dorman Long Chemicals!

Anya
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Re: Easy and cheap sanitiser

Post by Anya »

Thank you Gazman and Lighthouse. The discovery goes back some years, especially during the SARS epidemics, that corona and other viruses are enclosed in lipids (fatty substances) dissolved by soap and water, much better than alcohol gels and no mention of bleach in any clinical studies.

My work involves research, including medical and one of my greatest interests in life is to learn about past scientific studies and to follow present ones, as they unfold.

I would never post anything here, or say anything, anywhere, without checking the scientific work behind it.

The best way to sanitise surfaces, without producing bacterial immunity is - steam - hand held gyzmos and mops. Please don't take my word for that, plenty of hard evidence.

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Re: Easy and cheap sanitiser

Post by gazman »

Over the years assuring cleanliness has been a concern to me.
I often see the same cloth/mop being used over many different surfaces and not washed out at all.
The people shown on TV recently supposedly disinfecting handrails, doors etc. all fall foul of my criticism.

Long ago as a gay bachelor (in the old sense) I developed a method of sanitising my kitchen surfaces frugally and effectively.
(I had to look after family pets (3 cats and a dog) that had been "dumped" on me out of necessity and I wanted my house to feel clean. )
Not having the money to spend on disinfectants and the like, I used a piece of folded kitchen towel soaked in neat bleach to wipe surfaces, wetting the surfaces thoroughly. (Wearing gloves of course)
I'd then let it dry and I'd be left with a very clean surface.
I still use the method whenever I clean the kitchen.

There was one time i had regrets.
I was quickly cleaning up my bachelor run house expecting my girlfriend to arrive any minute.
The last thing I wiped with bleach was the kitchen table when almost immediately my girlfriend arrived.
The front door was open and as she ran towards me to give me a hug and a kiss she threw her brand new coat onto the still wet table.
I don't think i need to say any more.
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logicalN
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Re: Easy and cheap sanitiser

Post by logicalN »

Perhaps we should go back to some basic chemistry
The active ingredient of both Milton and "bleach" is sodium hypochlorite which is about 48% chlorine

Milton is sold as 2% hypochlorite , so a little under 1% chlorine

The Waitrose bleach I have is 3.5% "free" chlorine

We already have a difference in strength of 3.5 times

Milton recommend a 1.8% working solution which they claim kills viruses on surfaces in 15 minutes (Bottle sterilisation uses 0.6%)

So 10% Milton is already 5.5 times the suggested level . Thus 10% bleach is 19.25 times the suggested level . Overkill and needless risk come to mind

Most "bleaches" contain surfactants , perfumes and thickeners which may make them unsuitable for food use , Milton does not

As for my credentials , I've been a Member of the Royal Society of Chemistry for over 40 years and working chemist for over 30

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Badger
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Re: Easy and cheap sanitiser

Post by Badger »

gazman wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:52 pm
. . .The front door was open and as she ran towards me to give me a hug and a kiss she threw her brand new coat onto the still wet table.
I don't think i need to say any more.
Not your fault -- she should have hung it up properly, though we can perhaps excuse her if she had been overcome by your raw, animal magnetism.
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Re: Easy and cheap sanitiser

Post by gazman »

Badger wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:16 pm
gazman wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:52 pm
. . .The front door was open and as she ran towards me to give me a hug and a kiss she threw her brand new coat onto the still wet table.
I don't think i need to say any more.
Not your fault -- she should have hung it up properly, though we can perhaps excuse her if she had been overcome by your raw, animal magnetism.
I think she was overwhelmed and who can blame her, i was just surprised that it was only her coat.
"Europeanism is nothing but imperialism with an inferiority complex." Denis Healey

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aardvaark
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Re: Easy and cheap sanitiser

Post by aardvaark »

gazman wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:08 pm
Badger wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:16 pm
gazman wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:52 pm
. . .The front door was open and as she ran towards me to give me a hug and a kiss she threw her brand new coat onto the still wet table.
I don't think i need to say any more.
Not your fault -- she should have hung it up properly, though we can perhaps excuse her if she had been overcome by your raw, animal magnetism.
I think she was overwhelmed and who can blame her, i was just surprised that it was only her coat.
:laughitup: :laughitup: :laughitup: :madclap: Great one-liner!
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Anya
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Re: Easy and cheap sanitiser

Post by Anya »

Years ago we were told that bleach and even proprietary baby products should not be used on surfaces like high chairs, changing mats, toys ... that steam should be used instead. You move the baby first.

Immature little lungs, eyes, skin ... can be badly irritated.

Rarely I buy really expensive clothes but a big party was due, a long time ago and I splashed out. Guess what happened?

Even worse. Soon after we were married and just returned from a holiday, my hubby, very kindly, decided to do the accumulated laundry and set the hottest programme.

All my beautiful underwear that I had bought in Italy, France and places.

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