A Referendum for you! Should Boris Johnson resign?

Current Affairs, Religion and Politics - as before. Please refrain from personal attacks on members who may hold a different viewpoint from you. Don't Rock the Boat!

Should Boris Johnson resign?

Yes
9
26%
No
25
74%
 
Total votes: 34

Lighthouse
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Re: A Referendum for you! Should Boris Johnson resign?

Post by Lighthouse »

I don't know! :D I have an endless re-send on facts...maybe the message will one day arrive.

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wolf2uk
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Re: A Referendum for you! Should Boris Johnson resign?

Post by wolf2uk »

Lighthouse wrote:Nobody challenged Major in the courts back in 1997, with Boris they did. The law is there to be used, if people want to use it. It’s not compulsory.
Good point, but why was that Law not used when Major did what he did. The point being it seems that strange that in a situation we find ourselves in where those that think the Population voted the wrong way, are using every possible way to reverse the decision . That I find "disturbing".

As for your excellent posting, I have found that when sensible people discus or even argue on a matter, those that may just need a little more experience or even dare I say to "grow up" should always be encouraged to see sense and the ability to understand. :smiles:
Drake he's his hammock till the great Armadas come, slung atween the round shot, listenin' for the drum, Captain, art tha sleepin' there below.!

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Stormy
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Re: A Referendum for you! Should Boris Johnson resign?

Post by Stormy »

Because it wasn't as though anybody knew that this law actually existed! How many days did the court sit and argue the ins and outs of this before coming to their conclusion? After all, the High Court had already found against Gina Miller and for Boris Johnson, when it was argued there!
To say that Johnson broke the law or that he lied to the Queen is therefore a load of codswallop.
Protestors are much more violently opposed to fur than they are to leather. Why? Because it's much easier to hassle rich women than bikers.

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Downlander
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Re: A Referendum for you! Should Boris Johnson resign?

Post by Downlander »

Politics is in the gutter because of MPs like this.....totally lacking dignity and self control.

https://youtu.be/fpsh9APpxls
You Are What You Think.....
Not What You Think You Are.....

Lighthouse
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Re: A Referendum for you! Should Boris Johnson resign?

Post by Lighthouse »

Stormy wrote:Because it wasn't as though anybody knew that this law actually existed! How many days did the court sit and argue the ins and outs of this before coming to their conclusion? After all, the High Court had already found against Gina Miller and for Boris Johnson, when it was argued there!
To say that Johnson broke the law or that he lied to the Queen is therefore a load of codswallop.
How so? The Supreme Court is a higher court and they say he did suspend parliament unlawfully.

You can't just dismiss this as 'codswallop'.

He did something unlawful.

We don't know what he said to the Queen. He told parliament he was only suspending for Queen's Speech. That only needs a week or so, not five weeks. He refused to give any reasons to the court about what those extra weeks were for, although he was invited to give a signed statement.

Sounds like he knew that signing something would be a lie, unless he gave more honest reasons for needing all that time....in which case he would have been shown to have lied to MPs and possibly also the Queen.

Lighthouse
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Re: A Referendum for you! Should Boris Johnson resign?

Post by Lighthouse »

wolf2uk wrote:
Lighthouse wrote:Nobody challenged Major in the courts back in 1997, with Boris they did. The law is there to be used, if people want to use it. It’s not compulsory.
Good point, but why was that Law not used when Major did what he did. The point being it seems that strange that in a situation we find ourselves in where those that think the Population voted the wrong way, are using every possible way to reverse the decision . That I find "disturbing".
Because nobody chose to use the law with Major! Who knows why. They just didn't!

Why does this ruling reverse the decision? It doesn't, it puts the decision back where it should be - in the hands of the sovereign parliament. Boris is not a dictator, even though he's trying to behave in a dictatorial manner.

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wolf2uk
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Re: A Referendum for you! Should Boris Johnson resign?

Post by wolf2uk »

Stormy wrote:Because it wasn't as though anybody knew that this law actually existed! How many days did the court sit and argue the ins and outs of this before coming to their conclusion? After all, the High Court had already found against Gina Miller and for Boris Johnson, when it was argued there!
To say that Johnson broke the law or that he lied to the Queen is therefore a load of codswallop.
I do so agree Stormy. It's almost as though the doors have been opened to "he (or her) who shouts loudest, wins"
But as I have posted John Major lasted just four years as P.M. during which time he used "the shut down of Parliament for personal means". However, we have now what is becoming a Constitutional crises, made worse by those in Parliament who have yet to ask the people in their own Constituency's.
But the real fear is a Far Right Party will grow from this crises as is happening in a growing number of countries in the EU. May be some don't have experience of what happens when the Far Right takes over.

This is what we risk:-
If Brexit is reversed or even further delayed this will harden into an unshakeable conviction and will find expression in a radical, revolutionary form of popular right-wing politics. A belief will become established that the economic, social, and political elite will overrule or ignore democratic votes that they do not like, that the entire system is rigged and hostile to the interests of ordinary people. This plays into and also derives from the new emerging political division over questions of identity and nationalism versus cosmopolitanism.
Drake he's his hammock till the great Armadas come, slung atween the round shot, listenin' for the drum, Captain, art tha sleepin' there below.!

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aardvaark
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Re: A Referendum for you! Should Boris Johnson resign?

Post by aardvaark »

It's humbling how many members of this group are also judicial experts, so that they know the law of the land better than FIFTEEN top judges!!

Self-delusion is a mysterious thing, in the face of facts.

So, where would YOU go if you had a case to be heard? I'd love to know!!
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Anya
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Re: A Referendum for you! Should Boris Johnson resign?

Post by Anya »

Wait and see. The Brussels Buffoons are panicking, even the German economy is in serious trouble and the next few weeks should be interesting. As the Chinese never said, apparently.

Lighthouse
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Re: A Referendum for you! Should Boris Johnson resign?

Post by Lighthouse »

wolf2uk wrote: This is what we risk:-
If Brexit is reversed or even further delayed this will harden into an unshakeable conviction and will find expression in a radical, revolutionary form of popular right-wing politics. A belief will become established that the economic, social, and political elite will overrule or ignore democratic votes that they do not like, that the entire system is rigged and hostile to the interests of ordinary people. This plays into and also derives from the new emerging political division over questions of identity and nationalism versus cosmopolitanism.
You copied that from the Telegraph. It's the opinion of a right-wing, free-marketeer from a neoliberal thinktank, who wants a hard Brexit.

Lighthouse
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Re: A Referendum for you! Should Boris Johnson resign?

Post by Lighthouse »

aardvaark wrote:It's humbling how many members of this group are also judicial experts, so that they know the law of the land better than FIFTEEN top judges!!
We must be reaching peak madness as a society if people with no legal qualifications think they know better than the most senior of senior judges!

This is dangerous populism and Boris is fanning the flames, with some of the media joining in.

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Stormy
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Re: A Referendum for you! Should Boris Johnson resign?

Post by Stormy »

Lighthouse wrote:
Stormy wrote:Because it wasn't as though anybody knew that this law actually existed! How many days did the court sit and argue the ins and outs of this before coming to their conclusion? After all, the High Court had already found against Gina Miller and for Boris Johnson, when it was argued there!
To say that Johnson broke the law or that he lied to the Queen is therefore a load of codswallop.
How so? The Supreme Court is a higher court and they say he did suspend parliament unlawfully.

You can't just dismiss this as 'codswallop'.

He did something unlawful.

We don't know what he said to the Queen. He told parliament he was only suspending for Queen's Speech. That only needs a week or so, not five weeks. He refused to give any reasons to the court about what those extra weeks were for, although he was invited to give a signed statement.

Sounds like he knew that signing something would be a lie, unless he gave more honest reasons for needing all that time....in which case he would have been shown to have lied to MPs and possibly also the Queen.
I'm not dismissing the court's findings as codswallop at all. The way you are talking, it seems as though Johnson deliberately broke the law and lied to the Queen. My point is that this is a first! They had to deliberate for days on end before coming to their conclusions - and these, as you have rightly pointed out, are very senior judges. So are the ones at the High Court who found to the opposite. Mr Bumble was right!
Protestors are much more violently opposed to fur than they are to leather. Why? Because it's much easier to hassle rich women than bikers.

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Stormy
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Re: A Referendum for you! Should Boris Johnson resign?

Post by Stormy »

Lighthouse wrote:
wolf2uk wrote: This is what we risk:-
If Brexit is reversed or even further delayed this will harden into an unshakeable conviction and will find expression in a radical, revolutionary form of popular right-wing politics. A belief will become established that the economic, social, and political elite will overrule or ignore democratic votes that they do not like, that the entire system is rigged and hostile to the interests of ordinary people. This plays into and also derives from the new emerging political division over questions of identity and nationalism versus cosmopolitanism.
You copied that from the Telegraph. It's the opinion of a right-wing, free-marketeer from a neoliberal thinktank, who wants a hard Brexit.
Maybe so. However, the point is, how near to the truth is it? It's pretty obvious that if Brexit is abolished by Europhobes, there will most certainly be huge civil unrest, at the very least.
Protestors are much more violently opposed to fur than they are to leather. Why? Because it's much easier to hassle rich women than bikers.

Lighthouse
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Re: A Referendum for you! Should Boris Johnson resign?

Post by Lighthouse »

You said:
To say that Johnson broke the law or that he lied to the Queen is therefore a load of codswallop.

The courts said what he did was unlawful, so hardly codswallop. He went against constitutional law in the opinion of the most senior Judges in England and also the most senior Scottish ones.

The first court didn't find the opposite! They didn't find at all. They declined to give a ruling one way or the other.

Boris tried it on...but lost.

Lighthouse
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Re: A Referendum for you! Should Boris Johnson resign?

Post by Lighthouse »

Stormy wrote:Maybe so. However, the point is, how near to the truth is it? It's pretty obvious that if Brexit is abolished by Europhobes, there will most certainly be huge civil unrest, at the very least.
Well, we don't know that will happen. If it is halted it would probably be after another referendum so a new people's opinion. Unless by some fluke the LDs actually win.

Would most leave voters really get that out of control? There's always a few people who love a ruck, but most...who knows.

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wolf2uk
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Re: A Referendum for you! Should Boris Johnson resign?

Post by wolf2uk »

Lighthouse wrote:You said:
To say that Johnson broke the law or that he lied to the Queen is therefore a load of codswallop.

The courts said what he did was unlawful, so hardly codswallop. He went against constitutional law in the opinion of the most senior Judges in England and also the most senior Scottish ones.

The first court didn't find the opposite! They didn't find at all. They declined to give a ruling one way or the other.

Boris tried it on...but lost.
But just as a point of interest. If the UK public was forced to take part in another Referendum and the result still showed the Majority voted to leave, what would your reaction be, would accept or continue to deny a Democrat vote?
Yes the quote I posted was from the Telegraph, but it summed up how many, many people are feeling with regards the total (expect for Boris)lack of trust which is becoming seen, in the solemn undertaking which all Politicians made, to accept the result of the first Referendum.
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Lighthouse
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Re: A Referendum for you! Should Boris Johnson resign?

Post by Lighthouse »

The LDs have moved beyond a 2nd referendum now, to a straight revoke.

Labour are offering another vote - between whatever leave deal Corbyn negotiates.. and remain.

So if leave on those terms came out ahead, that's what would happen.

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Re: A Referendum for you! Should Boris Johnson resign?

Post by whipitquick »

Dear Remainers.
Attachments
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A word to the wise isn't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
White lives Matter...
Whipitquick


Lighthouse
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Re: A Referendum for you! Should Boris Johnson resign?

Post by Lighthouse »

As if anyone is ignoring the referendum :D

But parliament hasn't yet got an outcome it can vote for. A specific type of deal.

Lighthouse
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Re: A Referendum for you! Should Boris Johnson resign?

Post by Lighthouse »

Downlander wrote:Politics is in the gutter because of MPs like this.....totally lacking dignity and self control.

https://youtu.be/fpsh9APpxls
He should have stayed calm, but he's responding to what the AG just said. So he has a point.

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wolf2uk
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Re: A Referendum for you! Should Boris Johnson resign?

Post by wolf2uk »

Downlander wrote:Politics is in the gutter because of MPs like this.....totally lacking dignity and self control.

https://youtu.be/fpsh9APpxls
And they dared to "criticise" Boris for saying "Humbug".
Drake he's his hammock till the great Armadas come, slung atween the round shot, listenin' for the drum, Captain, art tha sleepin' there below.!

Lighthouse
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Re: A Referendum for you! Should Boris Johnson resign?

Post by Lighthouse »

wolf2uk wrote:And they dared to "criticise" Boris for saying "Humbug".
And why would that be do you think. What did that remark of 'humbug' refer to?

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Re: A Referendum for you! Should Boris Johnson resign?

Post by gazman »

aardvaark wrote:It's humbling how many members of this group are also judicial experts, so that they know the law of the land better than FIFTEEN top judges!!

Self-delusion is a mysterious thing, in the face of facts.

So, where would YOU go if you had a case to be heard? I'd love to know!!
Doesn't sound like humbling to me, it sounds like you are having a go at everyone who disagrees with you as usual.
"Europeanism is nothing but imperialism with an inferiority complex." Denis Healey

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Re: A Referendum for you! Should Boris Johnson resign?

Post by gazman »

Lighthouse wrote:
wolf2uk wrote:And they dared to "criticise" Boris for saying "Humbug".
And why would that be do you think. What did that remark of 'humbug' refer to?
Why would that be?
Probably because they are desperate for anything and everything to distract voters from leaving the EU, which is what Boris intends to do.
"Europeanism is nothing but imperialism with an inferiority complex." Denis Healey

Lighthouse
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Re: A Referendum for you! Should Boris Johnson resign?

Post by Lighthouse »

He was criticised for the use of the word in the particular context he said it.

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