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 Post subject: Re: Jazz Hands Lunacy
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:16 pm 
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Lighthouse wrote:
What, you and your deaf acquaintances are not aware of British Sign Language clapping? It's not new!

Also known as deaf applause or jazzhands. Now you know.



Unlike you I talk from experience in the real world, where deaf people applaud by clapping, no Jazz Hands. I just asked my son who was born deaf, and he thought I was being stupid. We both recently attended a wedding , about two hundred deaf people attended,. Lots of applause via clapping, not a jazz hand in sight.

Your problem is you tend to believe anything that supports your prejudices.

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 Post subject: Re: Jazz Hands Lunacy
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:31 pm 
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Lighthouse wrote:
Purwell wrote:
Quote:
The press have exaggerated.
Which the po-faced gullible ones have pounced on as they always do.


Things like this are easy clickbait aren't they. A vote to encourage silent clapping for sensible reasons becomes a BAN by SNOWFLAKES!!!

Grrrrrr those IDIOTS taking into account minority health issues! It's PC gone mad!! The lunacy!

I'm so angry I'm going to click on all articles like this and share with everyone I know. Who cares what the truth is, lets just all start foaming with righteous rage. It wasn't like this in my day....cont P94.

Clicks = circulation = advertising revenue = job done.

The Gammon Joints fall for it every time.

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 Post subject: Re: Jazz Hands Lunacy
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:35 pm 
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Downlander wrote:
Unlike you I talk from experience in the real world, where deaf people applaud by clapping, no Jazz Hands. I just asked my son who was born deaf, and he thought I was being stupid. We both recently attended a wedding , about two hundred deaf people attended,. Lots of applause via clapping, not a jazz hand in sight.

Your problem is you tend to believe anything that supports your prejudices.


It's a recognised form of clapping, part of BSL, that some deaf people use. Maybe it's more common in young people, I don't know...but it's definitely a thing that's in use in some places.

That, coupled with the sound sensitivity that some autistic people (and others) suffer explains this student union motion, to encourage silent applause.

I wouldn't have a problem using it, if I thought it was welcomed by others. It seems in this case, it was.


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 Post subject: Re: Jazz Hands Lunacy
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:20 pm 
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OK. Let's acknowledge that there ARE people who have a problem with loud noises. Yes, it would appear that the Student's Union are doing these people a service by insisting that only visual signals of appreciation are given. But are they really? Consider.
(1) The number of such people is so small, in relation to the general population, that the chances are that at the majority of such events in lecture halls etc, there probably won't be any.
(2) Even if there are such people at an event, I wouldn't mind betting that you'll still get a lot of the others who are noisy - especially when the alcohol's been flowing. But for the sake of argument, let's assume that in the universities, discipline is tight (some hope!) and it remains as silent as the grave, are we really doing these people a service?
No - where it falls down - and I've read about it, and heard about it being condemned as nonsense, elsewhere than here, is because the real world exists elsewhere. There are MUCH more noisy events in the public arena than ever would be experienced in a university lecture hall. Can you imagine, for example, a football crowd being instructed to only use hand signals, in order to cheer on their team, or express their dissatisfaction with a referee's decision? That's only one example of the very numerous events where crowds of people are very noisy. In short, what the student's union is attempting to enforce, is an artificial environment, which will not be met with, or indeed tolerated outside such an establishment. Which is why it's so widely perceived as being nonsense. I think Tom Lehrer summed it up, in one of his songs - Bright College Days. One line goes:
"Soon we'll be out and in this world of strife,
soon we'll be sliding down the razor blade of life"
Precisely.

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 Post subject: Re: Jazz Hands Lunacyy
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:57 pm 
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Lo and behold this topic discussed on Question Time tonight. General agreement.....bloody stupid !! Good point made....... Why deprive blind people of being able to hear clapping.

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 Post subject: Re: Jazz Hands Lunacy
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:08 am 
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Wouldn't surprise me either, if the statistics show, that people who can't stand noise are somewhat outnumbered by people who are blind.

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 Post subject: Re: Jazz Hands Lunacy
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:24 am 
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It's about access to democratic events, where votes are taken from the student body. An autistic person who is noise-sensitive simply won't attend if there is likely to be loud noise each time. They will lose their representation on what is effectively their student government.

It's not a blanket ban anyway, with punishments for anyone who does choose to clap. They have already said some people may prefer to. There's no reason the people accompanying a blind person couldn't choose to clap. Or they could simply tell the person how much silent clapping was going on.

The point is to create a democratic body that doesn't exclude anyone.


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 Post subject: Re: Jazz Hands Lunacy
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:47 am 
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Very commendable - but somewhat impractical.

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 Post subject: Re: Jazz Hands Lunacy
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:55 am 
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Lighthouse wrote:
It's about access to democratic events, where votes are taken from the student body. An autistic person who is noise-sensitive simply won't attend if there is likely to be loud noise each time. ................................................
The point is to create a democratic body that doesn't exclude anyone.

A silly argument because how are they expected to arrive at such events?
Via silent streets and other transport?
Speaking in a loud voice to be banned also?
You'll be demanding motor bikes and heavy lorries be banned from the streets and compulsory gags for the public next.
The whole idea is false and completely removed from real life.

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 Post subject: Re: Jazz Hands Lunacy
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:00 am 
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Such people use earplugs and noise-cancelling headphones to keep loud background noise down. So they could do that on the way to the Union, if it was noisy.

But doing that during a debate would defeat the object of attending to hear it.


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 Post subject: Re: Jazz Hands Lunacy
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:10 am 
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Lighthouse wrote:
Such people use earplugs and noise-cancelling headphones to keep loud background noise down. So they could do that on the way to the Union, if it was noisy.

But doing that during a debate would defeat the object of attending to hear it.

Exactly the same type of technology could be used in a debate too.
Microphones are not unusual at such events.

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 Post subject: Re: Jazz Hands Lunacy
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:00 am 
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There might be technological solutions to this...it would have to allow speaking to be clearly heard but somehow mute or minimise clapping/whooping, which could arise spontaneously at any time during a debate.

They don't seem to have such a system, so this is the solution they have suggested. It was well-received and voted for, and apparently some students have already said it will make them attend, where before they couldn't. This seems to have made some people in the wider world very angry for some reason I don't really get.

From the Union statement:

The way in which politics is managed and conducted is often hostile – we see that on a national stage every day of the week. We hope this decision goes some way towards promoting a better way of doing politics so that more people from all walks of life find it easier to participate in decision making that will affect the way their Students’ Union is run.

It is hostile isn't it - this small thing has made some people rage and fume, it's all over the media...Question Time for goodness sake, which should surely be concentrating on more important things.

Why does the media use this kind of stuff as clickbait anyway? Because it works I guess. When did we become a society which monetised manufactured outrage. You are being played.


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 Post subject: Re: Jazz Hands Lunacy
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:58 am 
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Interesting that some of the most vociferous supporters of Democracy, on this and other forums when it came to the referendum result, are against a democratic decision in this instance.

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 Post subject: Re: Jazz Hands Lunacy
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:42 pm 
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How democratic was it? Did every member of the NUS vote? Or was it merely a decision of the activists who seek to become members of the committee that represents the union? Whereas many other students don't seek to become involved.

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 Post subject: Re: Jazz Hands Lunacy
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:24 pm 
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Lighthouse wrote:
...................
You are being played.

Yes, by someone like you who claims to know what's best regardless of other people's opinion to the contrary.

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 Post subject: Re: Jazz Hands Lunacy
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:58 pm 
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It'll be a cold day in hell, when Lighthouse doesn't know the answer to everything. :wow:

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 Post subject: Re: Jazz Hands Lunacy
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:40 pm 
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gazman wrote:
Lighthouse wrote:
...................
You are being played.

Yes, by someone like you who claims to know what's best regardless of other people's opinion to the contrary.


But it's up to the Manchester students isn't it? The ones who voted on this motion. It's their opinion that matters here.

It was suggested with reasons given, debated and voted through with little opposition, so they say.

Maybe they will have another vote sometime, but for now that is what they think best.


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 Post subject: Re: Jazz Hands Lunacy
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:12 pm 
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Here's a similar thing. Morrisons supermarket have introduced a 'quiet hour' to benefit autistic shoppers.
Loony PC gone-mad nonsense? Or just a thoughtful way to make access easier for a minority of customers?


Supermarket chain Morrisons has introduced a weekly "quieter hour" for autistic shoppers who struggle with music and noise.
Its 439 UK stores will dim lights, turn music off, avoid using the tannoy and turn check-out beeps down on Saturdays from 09:00 to 10:00.

It is believed to be the first supermarket chain to roll out the scheme to all stores nationwide.
The National Autistic Society says it is a "step in the right direction".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44884183


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 Post subject: Re: Jazz Hands Lunacy
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:49 am 
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Here's another thing - autism-friendly screenings at cinemas. Does yours have them - mine do. Specially quiet, lights left on low, freedom to move about and so on.

Utter PC snowflakes.... or are they simply meeting a need?


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 Post subject: Re: Jazz Hands Lunacy
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:52 am 
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Maybe we should get the army to put silencers on all their weapons.....

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 Post subject: Re: Jazz Hands Lunacy
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:59 am 
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There are things that people with disabilities can't do - one example might well be some military careers but what on earth does that have to do with supermarkets and cinemas taking autism into account when planning what services to offer?


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 Post subject: Re: Jazz Hands Lunacy
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:23 am 
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Clarkes shoe shop has also put in place for parents of autistic children to make an appointment for measurements and fitting of shoes, this takes place away from the main shopping area and has been a godsend for my grandaughter when she has to buy new shoes for her 10 year old autistic daughter.


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 Post subject: Re: Jazz Hands Lunacy
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:34 am 
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The picture of the chap supposedly showing 'jazz hands' looks as though someone is pointing a 12-bore at him. Try moving the palms away from the head.


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 Post subject: Re: Jazz Hands Lunacy
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:37 pm 
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Another screaming bit of hysteria where a WHOLE society must be run for the sake of a tiny minority.

The various forms of autism are very difficult conditions, causing grave anguish to the sufferers and their families, requiring enormous financial and other resources.

But they are LESS THAN ONE PERCENT of the population of this country.

https://www.autism.org.uk/about/what-is ... stats.aspx


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 Post subject: Re: Jazz Hands Lunacy
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:14 pm 
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From your own link.

Autism is much more common than many people think. There are around 700,000 people on the autism spectrum in the UK – that's more than 1 in 100. If you include their families, autism is a part of daily life for 2.8 million people.


And yet you dismiss it as 'screaming hysteria.'


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