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 Post subject: Utopia
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:13 pm 
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Corbyn is speaking " at conference"

Fear not, he has a cure for ALL our problems.

Utopia is but an election away

Jeremy, John and Diana etc gawd bless em

I must stop now , his never ending list of promises are overwhelming me.

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 Post subject: Re: Utopia
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:48 pm 
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Probably similar promises to the ones that Lenin gave to the Russian peasants.

Just get rid of the Tzar and everything will be fine.

Shows how easily people can be fooled.

Dave.

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 Post subject: Re: Utopia
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:17 am 
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The other Dave. wrote:
Probably similar promises to the ones that Lenin gave to the Russian peasants.

Just get rid of the Tzar and everything will be fine.

Shows how easily people can be fooled.

Dave.

Certainly does, they still vote Tory!

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 Post subject: Re: Utopia
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:23 am 
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The problem as I see it is the Conservative party offer next-to-nothing in comparison to Labour.
All the Conservatives offer at the moment are disarray and uncertainty.
Labour offers hope and change.
Those two things are the most important aspect of any opposition party's policies approaching an election.
The problem for the Labour party is that there is not a lot they can do until there is an election and Conservatives will do their best to avoid going to the country.

You can claim it is all old politics, that Labour are offering false hopes and it will all end in tears as it did years ago as much as you like.
To a voter who has never experienced anything other than Blair, Cameron and May, Corbyn's promises look a lot better in comparison to what they have ever experienced so far.
(Also as an old voter I do not forget that the Conservatives have made me pay for the financial crash.)

The Conservatives need to understand that they too need to offer hope for the future and poo-pooing Corbyn with old-fashioned rhetoric will make no impact at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Utopia
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:02 am 
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God help us all if Corbyn and Abbot are on the reigns with the rest of that shower of - - - -


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 Post subject: Re: Utopia
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:16 pm 
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Gazman,

..To a voter who has never experienced anything other than Blair, Cameron and May, Corbyn's promises look a lot better in comparison to what they have ever experienced so far...

And that is what he is relying on.

The group you mention above never had to live through the days when Labour was holding the country to ransom via the all powerful unions.

Corbyn isn't known as Corbynski without reason. He is a big union supporter.

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 Post subject: Re: Utopia
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:34 am 
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The other Dave. wrote:
Gazman,

..To a voter who has never experienced anything other than Blair, Cameron and May, Corbyn's promises look a lot better in comparison to what they have ever experienced so far...

And that is what he is relying on.

The group you mention above never had to live through the days when Labour was holding the country to ransom via the all powerful unions.

Corbyn isn't known as Corbynski without reason. He is a big union supporter.

Dave.
I think that follows exactly what I said.
But do you blame him?
Its been decades since the old left had any of the political spotlight and they are laughing their heads off at the middle-of-the-road liberal-leaning Labour party members still in their ranks.
At the leadership election they nominated Corbyn thinking no one would vote for him but how wrong they were.

My point is that anyone can talk about Corbyn until the cows come home but it will make little or no difference to voters unless the Conservatives start talking proper politics and give people something to look forward to.
As was suggested on the Conservative Facebook forum today they need to get some ideas fast and try and recover the ideals the party used to have.
They also need to accept the unpalatable fact that the privatising of many of the old state industries (trains, water, power) has not improved Conservative support.

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 Post subject: Re: Utopia
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:44 pm 
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Gazman wrote :

My point is that anyone can talk about Corbyn until the cows come home but it will make little or no difference to voters unless the Conservatives start talking proper politics and give people something to look forward to.
As was suggested on the Conservative Facebook forum today they need to get some ideas fast and try and recover the ideals the party used to have.
They also need to accept the unpalatable fact that the privatising of many of the old state industries (trains, water, power) has not improved Conservative support.

Well said. No truer words ever written on this forum than those.

I bow to you sir!

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 Post subject: Re: Utopia
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:38 pm 
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...Its been decades since the old left had any of the political spotlight ..

And rightly so. The Old Left was only just to the right of Moscow.

Dave.

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 Post subject: Re: Utopia
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:39 am 
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Quite a few of the 'old Left' were firmly embedded into the nether regions of Moscow.


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 Post subject: Re: Utopia
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:00 pm 
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Where were you "embedded"?

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 Post subject: Re: Utopia
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:55 pm 
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I hope there will be another panic general election called by May. I am fed up with my country groaning under the broken kitten heel of the tories.

Labour is waiting in the wings.

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 Post subject: Re: Utopia
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:23 pm 
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For what this would mean for the fortunes of this country, see Venezuela. Or Liverpool, during the '80s. It's not Corbyn that's the main problem, it's McDonnell. His heroes, Karl Marx, Leon Trotsky and Josef Stalin.

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 Post subject: Re: Utopia
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:43 pm 
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We will have to see how fed up the rest of the country is (apart from me), then.

If the government is strong and stable and people have faith in it it will continue indefinitely won't it?

Nothing to worry about. Eh?

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 Post subject: Re: Utopia
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:16 pm 
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...Labour is waiting in the wings...

Always the bridesmaid, but never the bride.

But why is that ?

Why can't the 'party of the people' ever stay in power ?

Dave.

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 Post subject: Re: Utopia
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:31 am 
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There is at least one country in the world, that eagerly awaits a Corbyn victory. A country which has just spent quite a lot of money, honing its military capabilities, with a mock island invasion. Argentina. They know for a fact, that if they mount a second Falklands invasion, he won't lift a finger against them.

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 Post subject: Re: Utopia
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:21 am 
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Stormy wrote:
There is at least one country in the world, that eagerly awaits a Corbyn victory. A country which has just spent quite a lot of money, honing its military capabilities, with a mock island invasion. Argentina. They know for a fact, that if they mount a second Falklands invasion, he won't lift a finger against them.

If you cannot beat him with cogent argument, lapse into fantasy - never fails!

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 Post subject: Re: Utopia
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:53 am 
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Stormy wrote:
There is at least one country in the world, that eagerly awaits a Corbyn victory. A country which has just spent quite a lot of money, honing its military capabilities, with a mock island invasion. Argentina. They know for a fact, that if they mount a second Falklands invasion, he won't lift a finger against them.


Can you point to any evidence that Corbyn wants Argentina to have sole control of the Falklands?


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 Post subject: Re: Utopia
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:02 am 
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Lighthouse wrote:
Stormy wrote:
There is at least one country in the world, that eagerly awaits a Corbyn victory. A country which has just spent quite a lot of money, honing its military capabilities, with a mock island invasion. Argentina. They know for a fact, that if they mount a second Falklands invasion, he won't lift a finger against them.


Can you point to any evidence that Corbyn wants Argentina to have sole control of the Falklands?

Or any evidence that Mrs May or any other Tory leader would "lift a finger"?

You will probably find that the last two governments with their policy of Austerity have already stripped the islands defences to the bone. This is is what happened in 1982 and encouraged Argentina to try it's luck then.

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 Post subject: Re: Utopia
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:42 am 
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Purwell wrote:
You will probably find that the last two governments with their policy of Austerity have already stripped the islands defences to the bone. This is is what happened in 1982 and encouraged Argentina to try it's luck then.


Absolute fantasy again from you. The Argentinians had a military dictator "Leopoldo Fortunato Galtieri Castelli " who was a mad man who thought we would leave our sovereign island to be undefended, and so tried his luck and failed with a ramshackle army of soldiers who most didn't want to fight us and surrendered.

What they didn't reckon for was the Iron Lady Mrs Thatcher and her country, who would not let the islanders down.

Rule Britannia :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQsTPTG5O4I

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Last edited by whipitquick on Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Utopia
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:47 am 
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whipitquick wrote:
Purwell wrote:
You will probably find that the last two governments with their policy of Austerity have already stripped the islands defences to the bone. This is is what happened in 1982 and encouraged Argentina to try it's luck then.


Absolute fantasy again from you. The Argentinians had a military dictator "Leopoldo Fortunato Galtieri Castelli " who was a mad man who thought we would leave our sovereign island to be undefended, and so tried his luck and failed with a ramshackle army of soldiers who most didn't want to fight us and surrendered.

What they didn't reckon for was the Iron Lady Mrs Thatcher and her country, who would not let the islanders down.

What they didn't reckon for was the Iron Lady Mrs Thatcher and her deperate need for a poll boosting act that would guarantee her winning the next election.

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 Post subject: Re: Utopia
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:51 am 
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I have resorted to cut and paste for a change but take a look at this.
From Wiki:

Quote:
President Galtieri, as head of the junta, aimed to counter public concern over economic and human rights issues by means of a speedy victory over the Falklands which would appeal to popular nationalistic sentiment. Argentine intelligence officers had been working with the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) to help fund the Contras in Nicaragua, and the Argentine government believed it might be rewarded for this activity by non-interference on the part of the United States if it invaded the Falklands. The Argentine leadership had noticed that during the Suez crisis in 1956, the US had objected to the British use of force, that in 1981 the UK reached agreement with the former colony Rhodesia and that the 1961 Indian Annexation of Goa was initially condemned by the international community and then accepted as a fait accompli.[7]

Argentina exerted pressure at the United Nations by raising hints of a possible invasion, but the British either missed or ignored this threat and did not react. The Argentines assumed that the British would not use force if the islands were invaded.[8][9]

According to British sources,[10] the Argentines interpreted the failure of the British to react as a lack of interest in the Falklands due to the planned withdrawal (as part of a general reduction in size of the Royal Navy in 1981), including the last of the Antarctic Supply vessels, HMS Endurance, and by the British Nationality Act of 1981, which replaced the full British citizenship of Falkland Islanders with a more limited version.

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 Post subject: Re: Utopia
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:59 pm 
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The problem with the Falklands re invasion, is a strategic nightmare. Two large islands with a very tiny population, that population mainly spread in and around Port Stanley. Thousands of miles of coastline, with many bays and inlets. In order to stop a really determined invasion you would have to deploy many thousands of troops plus substantial artillery at strategic locations, lots of AAA plus ground to air missiles.
Having said that, the measures that are in place, are much more substantial than they were 36 years ago - and obviously concentrated where they are needed most. If Argentina did invade, they would get a much bloodier nose than they did when they overwhelmed the small force of Royal Marines, in and around Stanley - but would it be enough to stop a really determined invasion? I also suspect that there may be measures in place that are not in the public domain.

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 Post subject: Re: Utopia
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:04 pm 
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Lighthouse wrote:
Stormy wrote:
There is at least one country in the world, that eagerly awaits a Corbyn victory. A country which has just spent quite a lot of money, honing its military capabilities, with a mock island invasion. Argentina. They know for a fact, that if they mount a second Falklands invasion, he won't lift a finger against them.


Can you point to any evidence that Corbyn wants Argentina to have sole control of the Falklands?

No. I'm sure he doesn't, I reckon that he hopes that the status quo will remain as it is. What I'm saying is that if it DID happen, he wouldn't do anything to support the measures that are in place - and if these fail, he wouldn't commit any further military resources.

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 Post subject: Re: Utopia
PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:17 pm 
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Given that probably more people have been consigned to poverty and hopelessness by the Tories than live on the Falkland Islands, can we afford the cost of maintaining their defence for no good reason? No strategic importance, no economic importance other than deep oil reserves we will almost certainly never be able to develop.

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