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 Post subject: Prisons
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:42 pm 
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I spent some time this afternoon watching TV, specifically 3 senior prison officers being comprehensively grilled by a Select Committee.

The problems facing the service are huge and varied, the only common factor being that money is required to resolve all of them. Lumped together the result is that vast sums are required.

The Tories have cut back to balance the books, Labour would spend us into bankruptcy. Seems to me the Service is doomed to remain completely inadequate causing our society grave and ongoing problems.

What is the answer? without vast sums of cash I sure as hell don't know, and neither did the folk being grilled or those on the committee..

A most interesting insight into the complex business of prisons, particularly as it coincides with todays strike by prison officers.worth a look if you can get it on Catch Up.

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 Post subject: Re: Prisons
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:21 pm 
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This is a problem which deserves immediate and effective action, something which governments of all persuasions seem to have forgotten how to do. We could siphon off a huge wedge of the wasted money that we spend on foreign aid, we could increase the salaries of prison officers and recruit a lot more - people like ex service personnel, for example. Other problems like drugs in prisons are solvable, it's not rocket science, we just need to put some effective procedures in place. We should also be examining methods of getting prisoners to do meaningful work - even outside of the prison, for those who don't pose too much of a risk. Anything is better than having them banged up in their cells for most of the day. No wonder there are suicides. It never used to be like this, decades ago. Prisons were a lot more disciplined.

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 Post subject: Re: Prisons
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:23 pm 
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What evidence do you have that Labour would spend into bankruptcy? They would halt the privatisation of prisons though - why should profit be siphoned off by these massive firms like G4S and Serco?

The current government is not spending anything like enough. There must be scope for greater spending, without necessarily going bust.

Some of these prisons are so old they should be condemned and new ones built, but the answer has to also be more alternatives to jail for non-violent offenders and those who need healthcare rather than incarceration.


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 Post subject: Re: Prisons
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:26 pm 
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Stormy wrote:
Other problems like drugs in prisons are solvable, it's not rocket science, we just need to put some effective procedures in place.


Prison officers are underpaid and demoralised and doing a very dangerous job when there are so few of them. No wonder some turn a blind eye to the drugs... and in some cases actually supply them to their prisoners. It keeps the peace.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/sep/01/rise-in-prison-officers-contraband-smuggling


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 Post subject: Re: Prisons
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:58 pm 
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Lighthouse wrote:
What evidence do you have that Labour would spend into bankruptcy?n.


Because it's what they do, then they leave notes to the next government saying all the money has gone, don't you remember. Similarly your answer to most problem is more money from Government..

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 Post subject: Re: Prisons
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:19 pm 
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A bit more money sometimes yes, if there has clearly been underfunding...but other things too. Throwing money alone rarely solves things. Good management is essential and that doesn't necessarily mean privatisation - some of the private prisons are in trouble too. Creaming off profits and leaving a shambles.

Staff on low pay, being attacked, riots, condoning drug use to keep the inmates compliant, smuggling of phones and cigarettes. Overcrowding, prisoners released early to free up space, recidivism due to lack of aftercare, mentally ill prisoners who can't care for themselves outside.

You have no real evidence Labour would bankrupt anything - it's just a mantra to be repeated. That treasury note was part of a jokey tradition of leaving a funny note for the incoming team. Never meant seriously, but it was sent to the press and another tradition ends.

If you or anyone want to criticise Labour policy fair enough, but can you do it with reference to the manifesto and the stated intentions of the top team. Not vague allusions to the past and assumptions based on nothing.


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 Post subject: Re: Prisons
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:44 pm 
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A quick and cheap first step would be to restore the power of governors to discipline prisoners by cutting their remission time so that they can serve up to the whole sentence awarded by the court.

If a prisoner knew that even swearing at, let alone assaulting, a prison officer, might see his release date extended by two thirds he might think twice before doing it.


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 Post subject: Re: Prisons
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:07 pm 
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Precisely, spot on Laurie - but the problems are far too deeply ingrained to be solved simply by something relating to prison discipline. Lighthouse is also correct about these underpaid and abused prison officers giving drugs, for an easy time - but it's absolutely disgusting that we have reached such a low ebb, that such behaviour actually takes place. If there's one place where (theoretically!) drugs should not play a part, it surely should be in a prison. Especially when you get guys going in clean and coming out as addicts.

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 Post subject: Re: Prisons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:12 am 
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"The day jihadis hijacked my jail Bible class yelling support for Lee Rigby's killers: A chilling account of how Muslim gangs took over a Brixton prison - by a Christian chaplain who's just won his job back after HE was called an extremist and sacked"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... plain.html

This is the world of the far left supporters who would rather see us controlled by muslims than do anything about it?

Off to Golf now catch you laters... :clapping:

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 Post subject: Re: Prisons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:23 am 
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I didn't notice anyone say they wanted prisons to be muslim-controlled.

This chaplain is an evangelical volunteer, not an employee as such ...was apparently asked to leave because of the content of his courses. Now it's been established that due process was not followed so he's back, at least for now. Without knowing the details, who can really comment.


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 Post subject: Re: Prisons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:18 pm 
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Muslims already control what our military people wear. When was the last time you saw a soldier, sailor or airman walking down the street. It's quite disgraceful that we have allowed our country to be controlled by the Muslim threat, resulting in our military people having to ditch their uniforms.

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 Post subject: Re: Prisons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:09 pm 
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Don't the military decide on this kind of thing, based on what they think is wise at the time? I'm sure I remember Cameron encouraging the forces to wear them.


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 Post subject: Re: Prisons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:18 pm 
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Lighthouse wrote:
Don't the military decide on this kind of thing,


Yep ! and they have decided if a British soldier wears his military uniform on the streets of our country he/she is in serious danger of being slaughtered by a Muslim. Unpalatable for some perhaps, but true. It is quite disgraceful that we have allowed our country to come to this.

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 Post subject: Re: Prisons
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:20 pm 
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Downlander wrote:
Lighthouse wrote:
Don't the military decide on this kind of thing,


Yep ! and they have decided if a British soldier wears his military uniform on the streets of our country he/she is in serious danger of being slaughtered by a Muslim. Unpalatable for some perhaps, but true. It is quite disgraceful that we have allowed our country to come to this.

They were stopped from travelling in uniform in the early 70's because of "The Troubles" in Northern Ireland.

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