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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:33 pm 
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Downlander wrote:
Lighthouse wrote:
Do you think benefit fraud will suddenly stop after Brexit? It won't, will it.

The only thing that will help is more government staff and police, more stringent document checking systems, chasing up any anomalies and so on. More money put into it in other words. Will that happen I wonder? Given the Tory cuts of late it seems unlikely.


You never stop do you ? Spend spend spend, we have loads of dosh. When will you face the reality that we owe an absolute fortune and already spend more than we earn.

Anya is right, we have allowed into our country huge numbers of people who are deeply embedded in crime, that are costing us a fortune. Kick em out and don't allow anymore in. Look in the newspapers any day of the week and you will see the serious crime involving newcomers.

Apart from the fact that you are falling for the propaganda - drawing false conclusions from limited data, you are in favour of what will be the complete collapse of the British economy. Just think about it - we are approaching full employment, statistically, assuming we can believe the government's figures. If we expel all the foreigners, who will we replace them with, how will the economy function?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:40 pm 
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Downlander...And you never stop blaming immigrants. Plenty of benefit fraud is committed by British people, you only have to look at the media to see that. And plenty of immigrants are blameless and very productive.

It's not good wherever it happens - but the way to stop it is to make sure the systems and staff and police are in place. The Tories have cut staff instead. It's surely a false economy as the savings made only lead to more money lost in fraud. People can't always pay it back even if caught. Oh they can be jailed - but at more cost.

I agree people's criminal histories should be checked if they come here (and ours when we travel abroad.) That also means more staff, but the Tories have cut staff at the border agency. It also means retaining access to EU criminal databases - which we need to negotiate as part of Brexit. Otherwise how can we even check?

Apparently tax fraud by companies and individuals is about three times as large as benefit fraud.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:33 pm 
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I have no objection to immigration providing it is within sensible levels and doesn't create social discord. However I strongly believe the large number of criminals we have allowed in is totally unacceptable. Our jails are bursting with imported criminals, they cost us a fortune and contribute nothing. Worse than that are the enormous number free on the streets, causing carnage, as our ever rising violent crime rate shows.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:32 am 
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Downlander wrote:
Lighthouse wrote:
Do you think benefit fraud will suddenly stop after Brexit? It won't, will it.

The only thing that will help is more government staff and police, more stringent document checking systems, chasing up any anomalies and so on. More money put into it in other words. Will that happen I wonder? Given the Tory cuts of late it seems unlikely.


You never stop do you ? Spend spend spend, we have loads of dosh. When will you face the reality that we owe an absolute fortune and already spend more than we earn.

Anya is right, we have allowed into our country huge numbers of people who are deeply embedded in crime, that are costing us a fortune. Kick em out and don't allow anymore in. Look in the newspapers any day of the week and you will see the serious crime involving newcomers.

You must read different newspapers to me.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:40 am 
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Purwell wrote:
Downlander wrote:
Lighthouse wrote:
Do you think benefit fraud will suddenly stop after Brexit? It won't, will it.

The only thing that will help is more government staff and police, more stringent document checking systems, chasing up any anomalies and so on. More money put into it in other words. Will that happen I wonder? Given the Tory cuts of late it seems unlikely.


You never stop do you ? Spend spend spend, we have loads of dosh. When will you face the reality that we owe an absolute fortune and already spend more than we earn.

Anya is right, we have allowed into our country huge numbers of people who are deeply embedded in crime, that are costing us a fortune. Kick em out and don't allow anymore in. Look in the newspapers any day of the week and you will see the serious crime involving newcomers.


You must read different newspapers to me.


I read many, including those that report a lot of crime and those that don't.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:43 am 
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Who can deny that crime in this country is out of control? Much of it caused by those who inflict the misery caused by illegal drugs, especially the county lines gangs that are now being hunted, the ones who hold vulnerable youngsters, many pre-teen, in conditions of modern slavery, to act as their couriers. Indeed, one of the king pins of this pernicious trade has recently been convicted and jailed for 14 years. Should have been more like 140 years IMHO. He was only 21 years old.
Then there's the over 100 people who have been murdered in London, mainly stabbed to death, moped gangs, and police authorities who write 47% of serious crime off, as according to them, there's not enough evidence to go after the criminals, nor do they have the resources.
Here in Northampton, on Friday, we had a murder, a young man was shot dead, in a quiet residential area of the town. Nottingham is not called Shottingham for nothing. It could do with a sheriff and lots of deputies!

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:10 am 
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Stormy wrote:
Who can deny that crime in this country is out of control? Much of it caused by those who inflict the misery caused by illegal drugs, especially the county lines gangs that are now being hunted, the ones who hold vulnerable youngsters, many pre-teen, in conditions of modern slavery, to act as their couriers. Indeed, one of the king pins of this pernicious trade has recently been convicted and jailed for 14 years. Should have been more like 140 years IMHO. He was only 21 years old.
Then there's the over 100 people who have been murdered in London, mainly stabbed to death, moped gangs, and police authorities who write 47% of serious crime off, as according to them, there's not enough evidence to go after the criminals, nor do they have the resources.
Here in Northampton, on Friday, we had a murder, a young man was shot dead, in a quiet residential area of the town. Nottingham is not called Shottingham for nothing. It could do with a sheriff and lots of deputies!

I don't dispute that but it is by no means confined to immigrants, there are plenty of home grown drug dealers about and drug related crime is the biggest problem as far as I can see.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:17 am 
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I don't dispute that. We have - and always have had our own home grown baddies. However, on this basis alone, as (at the moment!) there are more Brits than immigrants who only started to arrive here in large numbers after the Second World War. On a purely statistical basis there should therefore be a lot more Brits than immigrants appearing on "wanted" posters, on programmes like Crimewatch. However, it seems to be the other way round.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:44 am 
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Lighthouse wrote:
Do you think benefit fraud will suddenly stop after Brexit? It won't, will it.

The only thing that will help is more government staff and police, more stringent document checking systems, chasing up any anomalies and so on. More money put into it in other words. Will that happen I wonder? Given the Tory cuts of late it seems unlikely.

No of course not. But we will not have to pay for the "possible" Phantom claimers, who "lurk" in the Eastern part of the Failing EU.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:55 am 
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Quote:
Apart from the fact that you are falling for the propaganda - drawing false conclusions from limited data, you are in favour of what will be the complete collapse of the British economy. Just think about it - we are approaching full employment, statistically, assuming we can believe the government's figures. If we expel all the foreigners, who will we replace them with, how will the economy function? King Edward

Interesting. However reading about the gathering "boom" in Office Property in London, it appears those that are in the "Know" with regards Business, don't share the opinion of the UK "collapse" when we leave the failing EU.
Also an interesting development as to Italy. It again appears the Brussels Bureaucrats are attempting to play "Chicken" with the Italy Government with regards a National Budget. The out come could be Italy leaves the EURO. If that were to happen, then "all the Kings Horses and all the Kings men could not put the EU back together again". Thank the powers we will be out soon.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:44 pm 
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The economy of this country was going to bomb - the day after - the referendum. It is booming.

Unlike Greece, Italy, Portugal, Spain ... even Germany ... and other member countries.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:57 pm 
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Anya wrote:
The economy of this country was going to bomb - the day after - the referendum. It is booming.

Unlike Greece, Italy, Portugal, Spain ... even Germany ... and other member countries.


Booming?
Quote:
Eight years after the trough in output following the Global Financial Crisis, the UK economy is slowing down. Demand, output and jobs have been resilient in the two years since the June 2016 Brexit vote – the economy did not “fall off the cliff” as many feared. And the strength of the labour market has been a notable achievement for the Government. But there are now growing signs of a softening in growth in the UK even though the world economy is picking up quite strongly. How much further does the expansion in output have to go before risks of recession emerge once more. In 2018 Britain will be one of the slowest-growing, if not *the* slowest-growing economy in the G20.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:22 pm 
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Anya wrote:
The economy of this country was going to bomb - the day after - the referendum. It is booming.

Unlike Greece, Italy, Portugal, Spain ... even Germany ... and other member countries.


You keep saying that and people keep providing facts to show it isn't.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:26 pm 
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wolf2uk wrote:
However reading about the gathering "boom" in Office Property in London, it appears those that are in the "Know" with regards Business, don't share the opinion of the UK "collapse" when we leave the failing EU.


The London commercial property market is unique because space is at a premium here and the capital is the place many businesses want to be. The general housing market is not doing so well though - grinding to a halt because of the uncertainty of Brexit. People are reluctant to buy until they know what's coming. This limbo state has been going on for too long...and possibly will carry on even after March 2019 if May succeeds in pushing many decisions over to a lengthy transition phase.

https://www.ft.com/content/87b1f284-1452-11e7-80f4-13e067d5072c


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:16 pm 
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wolf2uk wrote:
Lighthouse wrote:
Do you think benefit fraud will suddenly stop after Brexit? It won't, will it.

The only thing that will help is more government staff and police, more stringent document checking systems, chasing up any anomalies and so on. More money put into it in other words. Will that happen I wonder? Given the Tory cuts of late it seems unlikely.

No of course not. But we will not have to pay for the "possible" Phantom claimers, who "lurk" in the Eastern part of the Failing EU.


People seem to have no difficulty defrauding the system at present, using false identities so I wouldn't be too sure it will stop unless the claiming procedure is tightened up a lot.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:40 pm 
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Lighthouse wrote:
Anya wrote:
The economy of this country was going to bomb - the day after - the referendum. It is booming.

Unlike Greece, Italy, Portugal, Spain ... even Germany ... and other member countries.


You keep saying that and people keep providing facts to show it isn't.

And then again others show facts that it is. Take Italy, (I bet the EU Bureaucrats wish you would).

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:00 pm 
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If it is easier to prosecute immigrants for crimes rather than home grown thugs, sobeit. sooner or later the police will be able to extend their brief to our criminals.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:43 pm 
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Is it easier to prosecute immigrants? I would have thought it could be harder, especially if they aren't here legally or have somewhere to hop off to, escaping the police. We have means of tracking them in Europe and extraditing them if found - although those are mostly EU-run systems. I wouldn't be surprised if the hard-to -solve crimes that feature on Crimewatch are more likely to be done by people who have long since left.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:45 pm 
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Arlene Foster threatens to vote down the budget if May doesn't do what the DUP want re the borders.
So much for it all being a phantom problem created Brussels.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/oct/10/dup-may-vote-against-budget-if-theresa-may-gives-away-too-much-in-brussels?CMP=share_btn_tw


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:14 pm 
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Plenty of independent reports how the Brit economy is doing.

No doubt very annoying to The Guardian and The Beeb.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/british-e ... ics-2018-5


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:41 pm 
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What a wishy-washy article! Economy is a bit rubbish but not completely terrible.

Great! The sunny uplands are drizzly and you Brexiters are desperately pretending it's a glorious day.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:28 am 
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Brexit supporting Tory MP angry about the preparations for no-deal Brexit shock!!

A furious Conservative MP has demanded to know why he was not told about plans to turn a motorway in his constituency into a "parking lot" to handle the consequences of a "no-deal" Brexit.
Tom Tugendhat told the Commons that work on the M26 in Kent started on Wednesday night, even though he was given assurances that nothing was in the pipeline.
Highways England has confirmed to Sky News that as part of "wider resilience planning", the Department for Transport has asked it to "develop plans to utilise the M26 to hold heavy goods vehicles, should further capacity be required in the future".


This has been reported for months, where has he been?

https://news.sky.com/story/mp-tom-tugendhats-fury-over-no-deal-brexit-plan-for-m26-motorway-11523504?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:09 am 
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If two Kent motorways are to be lorry parks, that will make Kent such a no-go area for other visitors its economy will be hit for six. Hurrah for brexit! Losing loads of money? Feel those blue passports!

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:36 am 
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Lighthouse wrote:
Is it easier to prosecute immigrants? I would have thought it could be harder, especially if they aren't here legally or have somewhere to hop off to, escaping the police. We have means of tracking them in Europe and extraditing them if found - although those are mostly EU-run systems. I wouldn't be surprised if the hard-to -solve crimes that feature on Crimewatch are more likely to be done by people who have long since left.

Do I see a slight (as yet) realisation that because we have "open Boarders" to any "from the EU", and least we forget once they are in the EU, it's relatively easy to "skip" across the Channel to the UK and back again. But why has it not been made Law, that once a "Foreign criminal" has been caught, put through the system, sentenced, and after sentenced is served, deported back to country of origin?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:03 pm 
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We don't have completely open borders though, we can check passports and EU criminal records on entry now. And refuse entry if we find something bad.

And use the European Arrest Warrant to extradite criminals from the EU back here.

And they will be able to pop over just the same after Brexit - for a holiday even if they don't have the right to work, which they may still have anyway as the immigration policy is still a mystery.

And EU criminals can be transferred to EU prisons to serve sentence.

And they can be deported if they pose a risk to public order or go against public policy. Unless possibly they've been here for so long they can successfully claim right to family life or something..but that won't change after Brexit either as it's not an EU rule anyway.


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