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 Post subject: Laura Norder
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:03 pm 
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Location: Mid Devon
In the past day or two, we have had promises to...
...Increase the police force by 20000 (IIRC).
The recent machete attack on a policeman was given an example as to why this is necessary not that I can fathom out what passes for the thought processes behind that gem. No indication of the cost of this has been given nor the time scale. I am not even slightly persuaded we need a huge number of extra police unless, post brexit, they are expecting a lot of civil unrest.

...Increase the number of prison places.
Conveniently overlooking the fact that there are not enough prison officers to go around now without thrusting a huge extra workload on them.

...Remove the current policy of early release for good behaviour.
Which overlooks to points - firstly, removal of remission for good behaviour removes one of the few carrots that ensure good behaviour from prisoners, increasing the risk of disorder in prisons. And, secondly, remission is already taken into account when judges pass sentence.

...What amounts to the reintroduction of that old Tory favourite, the roundly discredited short, sharp shock.
They want to make criminal terrified. What does a terrified creature become a slave to? The fight or flight response. i.e. there will be a lot more violent crimes committed.

These policy announcements are all needless, all a waste of money and the triumph of populism over common sense and the needs fo the country. There is no mention of rehabilitation, no addressing of the cause of crime, just an all-out assault on the erogenous zones fo Tory voters.

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 Post subject: Re: Laura Norder
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:22 pm 
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Bring back the birch and cat and nine tails also, along with the death penalty for antisemitism and Arsenal supporters... :laughitup: :laughitup:

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 Post subject: Re: Laura Norder
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:34 pm 
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whipitquick wrote:
Bring back the birch and cat and nine tails also, along with the death penalty for antisemitism and Arsenal supporters... :laughitup: :laughitup:

...and worthless, uncomprehending buffoons?

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 Post subject: Re: Laura Norder
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:36 pm 
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We used to have it right. We had a lot less people in prison because there were a lot less committing offences. When I was a kid, we got away with nothing. Not in school, nor out of school. The local bobbies knew who the trouble makers were and kept an eye on them. Some became Teddy Boys - but then these same Teds would get an envelope with OHMS on it, and a rail warrant to somewhere like Catterick or Aldershot. They'd disappear for two years and come back, much better citizens.
Today the police turn a blind eye, to the sort of behaviour that would have had kids of my generation in Approved School or Borstal. This same behaviour now comes under the euphemism of anti-social behaviour and gets barely a slap on the wrist. It's criminal behaviour and should be severely stamped on. Rudi Giuliani knew that and look how he changed things in New York. Where did we lose it?

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 Post subject: Re: Laura Norder
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:41 pm 
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king edward wrote:
whipitquick wrote:
Bring back the birch and cat and nine tails also, along with the death penalty for antisemitism and Arsenal supporters... :laughitup: :laughitup:

...and worthless, uncomprehending buffoons?


:whathesaid:

Oh yes! I forgot and any member with a communist ideology who comes from Devon, and is their chief left wing mad moronic ranter.

:laughitup: :laughitup:

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 Post subject: Re: Laura Norder
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:24 pm 
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whipitquick wrote:
king edward wrote:
whipitquick wrote:
Bring back the birch and cat and nine tails also, along with the death penalty for antisemitism and Arsenal supporters... :laughitup: :laughitup:

...and worthless, uncomprehending buffoons?


:whathesaid:

Oh yes! I forgot and any member with a communist ideology who comes from Devon, and is their chief left wing mad moronic ranter.

:laughitup: :laughitup:

It is tempting to do something about your gross misrepresentation of me but, really, you are your own accuser. Only the extremely hard of thinking could possibly agree with you.

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 Post subject: Re: Laura Norder
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:27 pm 
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Stormy wrote:
We used to have it right. We had a lot less people in prison because there were a lot less committing offences. When I was a kid, we got away with nothing. Not in school, nor out of school. The local bobbies knew who the trouble makers were and kept an eye on them. Some became Teddy Boys - but then these same Teds would get an envelope with OHMS on it, and a rail warrant to somewhere like Catterick or Aldershot. They'd disappear for two years and come back, much better citizens.
Today the police turn a blind eye, to the sort of behaviour that would have had kids of my generation in Approved School or Borstal. This same behaviour now comes under the euphemism of anti-social behaviour and gets barely a slap on the wrist. It's criminal behaviour and should be severely stamped on. Rudi Giuliani knew that and look how he changed things in New York. Where did we lose it?

The rose-coloured spectacles of nostalgia might be comforting and familiar but they say nothing about an entirely different society, with different pressures, different influences and different causes of crime.

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 Post subject: Re: Laura Norder
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:19 pm 
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Nonsense. Crime is crime. Take burglary for example. How many burglaries do you have to do nowadays to get jailed? Back then, only one. Sentencing has been progressively diluted by bleeding heart leftie liberals and jails are just a joke. One place where it should be impossible to get drugs, should be in jail. The whole system needs a thorough overhaul.

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 Post subject: Re: Laura Norder
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:36 pm 
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What was the level of crime relating to illegal drugs when you were a lad? Because now, one way or another, it must be the main driver of criminal activity. And unlike other crimes it is different - very, very lucrative for some and linked to an illness that produces a compulsion that is extremely difficult to resist and which ensures the perpetuation of the crime.

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 Post subject: Re: Laura Norder
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:48 pm 
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I, Actually think Boris has got it right. Despite the Tories lopping off 20K police officers in the last few years. The answer is to hit the the baddies with a bigger stick than they have, punish them for longer and keep them in for longer. The drug dealers in my town are diminishing as the residents are learning to spot a "Deal" Calls to the OB are increasing. It is up to you, Chaps.


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 Post subject: Re: Laura Norder
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:44 am 
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Location: West Yorkshire. UK
King Edward,

.. I am not even slightly persuaded we need a huge number of extra police unless, post brexit, they are expecting a lot of civil unrest...

... There is no mention of rehabilitation, no addressing of the cause of crime.
..

You really have no idea, have you ?

Keep on wearing those rose tinted specs, KE.

Dave.

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 Post subject: Re: Laura Norder
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:32 am 
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The other Dave. wrote:
King Edward,

.. I am not even slightly persuaded we need a huge number of extra police unless, post brexit, they are expecting a lot of civil unrest...

... There is no mention of rehabilitation, no addressing of the cause of crime.
..

You really have no idea, have you ?

Keep on wearing those rose tinted specs, KE.

Dave.


Perhaps you'd like to explain why I have no idea and why what I posted is wrong. Because in the absence of any argument against me I am pretty damned sure I am right.

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 Post subject: Re: Laura Norder
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:53 am 
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king edward wrote:
What was the level of crime relating to illegal drugs when you were a lad? Because now, one way or another, it must be the main driver of criminal activity. And unlike other crimes it is different - very, very lucrative for some and linked to an illness that produces a compulsion that is extremely difficult to resist and which ensures the perpetuation of the crime.

I agree with you. Drugs were virtually unknown, they didn't really take off until the 60s. We need a REAL war against this vile scourge with extremely draconian sentences for the purveyors of this pernicious filth.

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 Post subject: Re: Laura Norder
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:32 am 
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king edward wrote:
whipitquick wrote:
Bring back the birch and cat and nine tails also, along with the death penalty for antisemitism and Arsenal supporters... :laughitup: :laughitup:

...and worthless, uncomprehending buffoons?

But surely, for those that live in areas where "Crime" is flourishing, there is some sympathy for more firmer action than telling someone they have been naughty and letting them off with stern words.

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 Post subject: Re: Laura Norder
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:34 am 
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Yes there's sympathy and Boris is looking for votes. Making out he cares about it and will spend money on it is calculated to win support in the next election, which is looming.

Juts watch him roll it back if he wins.


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 Post subject: Re: Laura Norder
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:55 am 
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Contraband cannot be kept out of prisons until all visitors can be searched , including "legal advisors" and clerics . Not my opinion , that of long serving officer at Long Lartin


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 Post subject: Re: Laura Norder
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:42 pm 
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Well let's do it! Hardly rocket science.

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 Post subject: Re: Laura Norder
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:49 pm 
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Established practice , Stormy , neither can be searched


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 Post subject: Re: Laura Norder
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:55 pm 
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So? Time to change the law.

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 Post subject: Re: Laura Norder
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:09 pm 
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Too many lawyers and clerics in parliament for that I'm afraid


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 Post subject: Re: Laura Norder
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:18 pm 
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I'm assuming that all visitors go through a metal detector. If so, why can't the guard manning the metal detector have a drug sniffing dog at his side?

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 Post subject: Re: Laura Norder
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:30 pm 
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That would require investment that our Home Office has been unprepared to make and I'm not holding my breath for the present mob to do any better


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 Post subject: Re: Laura Norder
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:56 am 
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Isn't spice, one of the main drugs in jails, undetectable by sniffer dogs, as it has no significant aroma?

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 Post subject: Re: Laura Norder
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:57 pm 
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Stormy wrote:
Isn't spice, one of the main drugs in jails, undetectable by sniffer dogs, as it has no significant aroma?



Dogs can be trained to do almost anything.

https://www.ajc.com/news/douglas-traine ... Q9VRRyB6K/

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 Post subject: Re: Laura Norder
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:31 pm 
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KE,

If you can't see that the country is badly in need of many more police, particularly at local level, the it can only be due to one of two reasons.

Either you are being willfully ignorant of the situation in most parts, or you do not keep up with the news.

Or a third option is that you live in some idyllic neck of the woods that normal problems of crime pass by.

I wish you no personal malice. But you do appear not to be seeing or experiencing what the rest of us in the UK are.

Dave.

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One hot night spent with a stranger.
All you wanted was somebody to hold on to.

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