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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:57 am 
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According to the experts. The only way to save the planet. Is if the human race Disappears from the face of the earth. Well it would leave the badgers in peace I suppose. Apparently the temperature is set to rise. (It's called summer.) According to an well known scientist. (Can't remember his name.) The earths orbit is swinging a little closer to the sun, This time around. Hence the increase. On the other hand. Informed opinion. Says it's all my fault, for existing. So lets see if I've got this right. We are all going to drowned because of rising sea levels. 4inch in 90 years?) But I 'm not convinced. As we all know. The earths crust is so thin. That it has a "Middle Age Spread. At the equator. And the diameter at the poles. Is a great deal smaller at the equator. And because of the "Coriolis Effect. And melting sea ice flows to the equator. And the increased weight Then raises the polar regions, to a higher altitude. Which causes a drop in temperature. Which causes more ice. Which would explain the falling sea levels in Scotland. It also seems that we have too much C02. So we need more trees/plants, to gobble it up. Or maybe I've got it wrong. And it is all my fault. :sorry: :sorry: :sorry: :sorry:


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:02 am 
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I was a man made climate change denier, not that I didn't believe that man's activities didn't have an impact, just that any impact that it did have wouldn't be enough to cause major problems. The reasons that I believed this, is because in very recent geological time, we have had a series of ice ages. There wasn't just the one - the last one ended 10,000 years ago when we became detached from the Continent as a land area, known as Dogger Land now the English Channel was flooded. We know that it was land due to the huge amounts of animal remains, things like aurochs, sabre toothed tiger etc and artefacts - stone axes, arrowheads, etc, etc which have been dredged up.
In Europe, 4 seperate ice ages are recognised, the Wurm, the Riss, the Mindel and the Gunz. When an ice age arrives, it does so very quickly. Land that has been enjoying almost tropical temperatures is suddenly covered in many hundreds of feet of ice, in a matter of tens of years. Yet this ice can melt and vanish in an equally short period - and we get what's known as an interglacial, where once again, balmy temperatures rule. There is also evidence that during an ice age, warmer periods known as interstadials develop.
So what causes the ice ages and the huge swings that lead to interglacials - indeed, could we be in an interglacial and maybe we haven't seen the last of these incredible climate swings? Nobody knows. What is certain, is that the mighty forces which have wrought such swings are far beyond anything that man can do - especially as he was only around during the last one and there weren't many of him!
That was why I believed that man made climate change could not compete with nature and anything we could do might not be too significant. I now no longer believe that. I think that we are causing catastrophic changes and we have to get a grip.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:04 am 
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You forgot to take into account all the cows farting!

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:45 am 
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You can't blame me for the cows. :shock:


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:23 am 
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Purwell wrote:
You forgot to take into account all the cows farting!

No I didn't.The cows are only there to fart due to man's animal husbandry. File it under "Man's climate warming activities." There's an awful lot of subjects for filing in there. It's a very broad church.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:17 pm 
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Regular bouts of panic. Human numbers need to be reduced, drastically, as we are giving many other species absolutely no chance of survival.

Educating the populace, without the horrors of China, will not be easy. Many religions are still pushing unlimited reproduction and too many people still feel they have the - right - to as many children as they want.

Hitting them in the pocket would work but bleaters would soon be screaming about - punishing the innocent children.

The other reality is that if human life becomes too difficult, the problem will resolve itself. The planet will continue to gyrate, unconcernedly and animal species will slowly return. As happened many, many times before.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:52 pm 
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As per the various mass extinctions that we've seen, such as the one at the KT boundary, that saw off the dinosaurs and many other species.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:56 pm 
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We did seem to be getting a grip. Drax power station in South Yorkshire. Did a lot of development work, on extracting CO2 from chimney flues. The idea being. To pump the gas. into the oil cavities under the North Sea. This would give us more oil. Shore up the sea bed. And help clean up the atmosphere. But it seems to have disappeared. And now the USA. as started using more coal as fuel. And that's not my fault either. Any more than the flatulent cows. ;thinking: ;thinking:


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:58 pm 
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Was it the 1960s when we were advised that there were too many people for the planet to support and should limit our breeding to no more than two children? It faded away.

Stacey Dooley did a great programme last night on the fashion industry's denial of pollution. This focussed on Indonesia. A river murdered by chemicals with poor families washing and drinking in the same stuff.

It's the greedies and avaricious in their uncontrolled world that are killing the rest of us.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:22 pm 
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Star wrote:
Was it the 1960s when we were advised that there were too many people for the planet to support and should limit our breeding to no more than two children? It faded away...

Yes, and my classmates and I had two children or less, while people in other countries, like Canada, were paid to have children.

CODGER discussed this subject in the Stateroom: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7251&p=279029&hilit=The+UK+was+fourth#p279029

My reply:

Quote:
In 2017, US had largest decline in CO2 emissions in the world for 9th time this century


Quote:
Ten countries with the largest reductions and increases in CO2 emissions (millions of tons) 2017:


http://www.aei.org/publication/chart-of ... s-century/

https://www.aei.org/publication/research/

The United States leads the world in reducing CO2 emissions, and the UK is fourth.

The leading countries adding to CO2 emissions (in 2017) are: South Korea, the Russian Federation, Canada, Spain, Indonesia, Iran, the European Union, Turkey, India and China.

Quote:
…5. Together, China and India accounted for nearly half (212.2 million tons) of the increase in global carbon emissions (426.4 million tons). EU emissions were also up (1.5% and 42.4 million tons, see chart) with just Spain accounting for 44% of the increase in EU emissions. Among other EU members, UK and Denmark reported the lowest carbon emissions in their history

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:42 pm 
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Quote:
In 2017, US had largest decline in CO2 emissions in the world for 9th time this century

Sounds good, but...
Quote:
It’s important to note that the US is still among the highest emitting countries (total and per capita) in the world.

https://www.quora.com/How-do-you-explai ... -Agreement

And why would Spain be taken out of context of the EU? It's part of it, after all.
Spain above the world average in CO2 emissions reduction

Which just goes to show - statistics can be used to prove anything! :roll:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:56 am 
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Sea levels rising 4 inches?

Does it worry me? Well, seeing that I live on top of a 900 foot hill... No.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:06 am 
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Seeing as 99% of all the species which have inhabited the earth are now extinct we might be next. The rising turbulance in countries like China, India, USA it makes me think back to university where I read of a then new experiment by, I think, a German scientist which became known as the Rat Utopia . Google it but rats were introduced to a closed area, always had sufficient food and water as their numbers increased, but they came to a point where they started attacking each other for no reason.
Climate change has occurred in the past , history records the Thames freezing over and at the other extremes in the same area grape growing and a thriving wine industry.
As for sea levels rising ask some of the Pacific Islanders, some of whom have already had to leave their islands. The argument is not about climate change it is about whether we are causing it.
Personally I rather like the excitement of a huge asteroid, flaming in the sky getting bigger and bigger. :-)

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:54 am 
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Huge flaming asteroid? Well you can't blame for that either. Trouble with these end of the world events. I keep missing them. Particle accelerator. Didn't happen . Flat battery or something. Asteroid collision (several.). Must have been on holiday. or busy. But at least it wasn't me to blame. Life is becoming. One big "Guilt Trip" :sorry: :sorry: :sorry: :sorry:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:49 am 
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We are seeing huge climatic events already, like hurricane Michael which has hit Florida really hard. However, I think the real danger of cataclysmic events is more likely to take place as a result of heavily populated areas becoming inundated and impossible to live in. For example, Bangladesh. Largely low lying, it has been devastated by heavy monsoon rains in recent years and if this trend continues - or indeed gets worse, where is this population going to migrate to? India? Burma? Not very likely is it, considering historical events based on different religions! Nor is Bangladesh the only place. Other countries, in Africa for example may witness the exact opposite and become deserts with very little rainfall. Where will these people go? Europe? Looking at the upheavals caused in recent years which has generated a huge traffic from both Africa and the Middle East, to Europe, just how much more will be taken? Sadly, as a result of human history from the beginning, the only thing that this is going to cause is war. Perhaps one that will make the losses of the 20th centuries world wars look small by comparison. After all - what was one of the excuses for the launching of WW2? Lebensraum.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:10 am 
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Quote:
We are seeing huge climatic events already

We are being encouraged to believe that the weather is getting more extreme precisely for the reason you state namely we are seeing it on TV.

Last night after one of the nicest October days (for 7 years we were told) what did we see on the weather forecast?
Did we see sunny views taken by viewers or people lazing in the parks and on the beaches?
No!
We were shown the latest storm damage from the other side of the world because:
a) Our weather was too boring and not sensational enough and
b) The storm on the other side of the world fits in with the view that the weather is getting more severe i.e. global warming, climate change and it's all your fault.

So while other parts of the world continue their destruction of the environment, increase their burning of fossil fuels, chuck all their rubbish (and ours believe it or not transported all that way!!!) into their rivers and oceans WE have to stop, think, feel guilty and spend huge quantities of money to reduce our piddly contribution to all of this.

Who is being conned here?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 12:41 pm 
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Absolutely agree. The guilt machine in full flow. Did anyone see the Beeb programme about plastic pollution the other night, with Liz Bonnin? Seabirds chicks crammed full of plastic, because the parent birds can no longer tell the difference. Impossible to see any water, in vast rivers and oceans of plastic.

No matter what a tiny 'advamced' (laff) country may do in the way of safe disposal and recycling, it makes little difference if huge and enormously overpopulated parts of the world make NO provisions, at all. Or even decide to return to the dirtiest and most polluting industries.

Unless we stop mindless wars and begin to tackle all those issues, as a - global problem - humanity will not deserve to survive.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:32 pm 
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gazman wrote:
Quote:
We are seeing huge climatic events already

We are being encouraged to believe that the weather is getting more extreme precisely for the reason you state namely we are seeing it on TV.

Last night after one of the nicest October days (for 7 years we were told) what did we see on the weather forecast?
Did we see sunny views taken by viewers or people lazing in the parks and on the beaches?
No!
We were shown the latest storm damage from the other side of the world because:
a) Our weather was too boring and not sensational enough and
b) The storm on the other side of the world fits in with the view that the weather is getting more severe i.e. global warming, climate change and it's all your fault.

So while other parts of the world continue their destruction of the environment, increase their burning of fossil fuels, chuck all their rubbish (and ours believe it or not transported all that way!!!) into their rivers and oceans WE have to stop, think, feel guilty and spend huge quantities of money to reduce our piddly contribution to all of this.
Who is being conned here?

Are we being conned? Just look at what it used to be like here. All the people who were killed in the Great Smog of 1952, in London. I too can remember much of the same in the heavily industrialised Teesside of the 50s and 60s. It led to the clean air act, maybe the beginning of good environmental practices. At the beginning of the 1980s we were producing around 120,000,000 tonnes of coal, most of which was earmarked for power generation. How much do we produce now, or indeed burn? Yes, the huge contributors, countries like the USA, China and India MUST do more - but whether or not they will, remains to be seen. Yet cutting down on our C02 emissions, is not a bad thing to do, as far as our local environment is concerned. Advances continue to be made in carbon neutral sources of power generation. Remember acid rain? Well - since we now burn very little coal - a source of sulphur dioxide, from the iron pyrite it contains, we no longer hear anything about that do we? So although cutting down on our own carbon emissions has to be a good thing, the targets that have been set do not appear to be in any way realistic. But maybe they might be achievable due to advances in the technology - and that has to be a good thing.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:21 pm 
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Quote:
...countries like the USA, China and India MUST do more...

The USA is doing more, as I stated in an earlier post.

Hurricanes are not becoming worse…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_d ... hurricanes

The media is becoming more dishonest.

“Save Our Seas Act” was signed today. (For anyone interested: At about 42 seconds...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEGY1Xndp84 )

If you feel guilty for breathing out CO2, CODGER, I suggest you send your money to the UN, so they can waste it on something else.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:55 am 
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So we don't forget...

Quote:
US Leads World In Carbon Reduction, Despite Withdrawal From Paris Agreement

The United States leads the world in carbon reduction, according to the latest world climate report from the BP Statistical Review of World Energy.

Based on the report, the U.S. reduced its carbon emissions by 0.5 percent in 2017, despite withdrawing from the Paris Climate accord, and in spite of its 3 percent GDP growth. It’s an incredible combination of statistics. It’s also the ninth time the U.S. has been the leader in the past century.


But the biggest story is not who is leading the battle against climate change, but who isn’t. And that would be every EU nation. Yes, the EU nations that were applauded along with former President Barack Obama for signing the Paris Agreement in their noble attempt to lower carbon emissions.

It actually turns out, according to the Climate Action Network of Europe, that not a single EU country is within 80 percent of its respective target for emission reduction, with all but five not even hitting 50 percent of their target. The official report by CAN Europe, published in June, states that all EU countries are failing to increase their climate action in line with the Paris Agreement goal...
More here:
https://factswanted.com/2018/08/23/us-l ... agreement/

Why the President withdrew from the Paris Climate Accord:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-st ... te-accord/

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:30 pm 
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Still the same problem.

Some countries make an effort, even if it is only lip-service. Other countries don't.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:24 am 
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It'll be a bug. We're over using antibiotics, they're becoming less effective, soon they won't work. Then the bug will arrive....

Bye bye 80% of the human race....

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:49 am 
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Even the big bug theory is now doubtful.

Very recently, copper was found to be a more powerful antibacterial agent, than most antibiotics, put together.

Eighty percent of human apes could disappear and that would still leave too many. Given our record.


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