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Will anyone Believe Andrew?
Poll ended at Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:32 pm
1. Who is he 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
2 Do I care. 63%  63%  [ 5 ]
3.I am bored now. 38%  38%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 8
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 Post subject: Re: Andrew, (I think)
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:14 pm 
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:shock: NO! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Andrew, (I think)
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:55 pm 
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Yes, I agree with HER! :whathesaid:

NO!

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 Post subject: Re: Andrew, (I think)
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:59 pm 
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Anya wrote:
Sky - Her Maj has been the most dutiful monarch, within her perceptions. At least she had some of her own childhood away from the glare of the great unwashed, with no life of their own.


Anya. Do you consider yourself one of 'the great unwashed' you keep thrusting in our faces?

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 Post subject: Re: Andrew, (I think)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:15 am 
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Lighthouse wrote:
laurie 53 wrote:
But that isn't the case - the line is fixed and Andrew is 8th now.

But it is. As you say, the line is fixed.


So why is Andrew currently 8th in the line of succession and not 2nd?


Because Charles is Heir Apparent and William is Heir Presumptive, in other words, if nothing changes he will succeed. George is also an Heir Presumptive.

The Queen was Heir Presumptive until the day she acceded , because, however unlikely, a male heir could have been born.

The confusion is caused by sloppy, unchallenged, reporting.


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 Post subject: Re: Andrew, (I think)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:43 am 
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But you didn't answer the question.

If Charles died, the current line of succession has Andrew in 8th position.

If he's next in line as of today, why isn't he second?


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 Post subject: Re: Andrew, (I think)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:49 am 
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Lighthouse wrote:
But you didn't answer the question.

If Charles died, the current line of succession has Andrew in 8th position.

If he's next in line as of today, why isn't he second?


Because, following the normal line of succession he isn't.

Only if circumstances change will this change, but change it will.


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 Post subject: Re: Andrew, (I think)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:02 am 
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There is only one line of succession. You can look it up.

As of today, Andrew is 8th and William is 2nd. If Charles died today, it passes to William.

If it would be Andrew, then Andrew would be 2nd today. He isn't.

Fortunately! :)


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 Post subject: Re: Andrew, (I think)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:11 pm 
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The line of succession comes from the Queen, not Charles. If he snuffs it before she does, it's still with her, and will pass to her next eldest son, breaking the current line. Succession is the immediate descendant. It cannot skip a generation.

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 Post subject: Re: Andrew, (I think)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:58 pm 
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Hmmmm but the line of succession as it stands today, is based on the current state of play with Charles not yet King...so why isn't Andrew second in line. With Anne and Edward coming next?


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 Post subject: Re: Andrew, (I think)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 2:40 pm 
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// Do you consider yourself one of 'the great unwashed' you keep thrusting in our faces? //

People who seem to exist by proxy only, gawping at every singer, filum 'star', telly 'personality', vague royalty .... anything on a screen or a magazine. Forgivable perhaps at age fifteen. Unforgivable at age thirty.

A washed me face an' 'ands afore a came.
:smiles:


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 Post subject: Re: Andrew, (I think)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:52 pm 
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Lighthouse wrote:
Hmmmm but the line of succession as it stands today, is based on the current state of play with Charles not yet King...so why isn't Andrew second in line. With Anne and Edward coming next?


Because Charles is alive. And when he becomes king, he can then pass it to his direct successor which is Wills. But if Wills dies before Charles, it goes to Harry. Not George.

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 Post subject: Re: Andrew, (I think)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:28 pm 
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Skyrunner wrote:
Lighthouse wrote:
Hmmmm but the line of succession as it stands today, is based on the current state of play with Charles not yet King...so why isn't Andrew second in line. With Anne and Edward coming next?


Because Charles is alive. And when he becomes king, he can then pass it to his direct successor which is Wills. But if Wills dies before Charles, it goes to Harry. Not George.



Exactly so, Sky.

The operative words are "the line of succession as it stands".

If William dies before Harry, then Harry will become heir, not George.


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 Post subject: Re: Andrew, (I think)
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:50 pm 
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The line of succession as it stands today is the only one there is. There aren't alternatives depending on Charles being alive or not.

If what you say is correct, the line would be Charles, Andrew, Edward, Anne, then William...

But it's not that. It's Charles, William, George, Charlotte, Louis...

Even Archie is ahead of Andrew, because the line passes down through the eldest child, then their eldest and so on, under the principle of primogeniture. When William was born, Andrew was pushed down the line...he has dropped further since with other births, to eighth place. He isn't hovering like a spectral second in case his elder brother dies. William is the one groomed for that. He's the eldest child.

Plenty of articles discussing this, none refuting it. The line speaks for itself though.

https://www.ibtimes.com/what-happens-if-prince-charles-dies-queen-elizabeth-2767975


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 Post subject: Re: Andrew, (I think)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:09 am 
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None so blind as those who won't see!


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 Post subject: Re: Andrew, (I think)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:07 pm 
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Primogeniture is eldest CHILD - not grandchild. So if Charlie dies first, the Queen's eldest child is then Andrew.

That would change the line completely.

Thankfully, Charles seems quite healthy.....

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 Post subject: Re: Andrew, (I think)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:21 pm 
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Does that mean. Charles couldn't abdicate in favour of William?

The foregoing tells me he could, but it's above my pay grade.


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 Post subject: Re: Andrew, (I think)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:22 pm 
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That is wrong. If Charles dies first, William becomes the heir and so on. Short of a Kind Hearts and Coronets type scenario no way will the disgraced duke become king.

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 Post subject: Re: Andrew, (I think)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:34 pm 
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John o Wirral wrote:
Does that mean. Charles couldn't abdicate in favour of William?

The foregoing tells me he could, but it's above my pay grade.


He could technically abdicate in favour of William (not Andrew!) but I would guess it's unthinkable to him unless he was seriously incapacitated.


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 Post subject: Re: Andrew, (I think)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:39 pm 
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Skyrunner wrote:
Primogeniture is eldest CHILD - not grandchild. So if Charlie dies first, the Queen's eldest child is then Andrew.

That would change the line completely.

Thankfully, Charles seems quite healthy.....


Charles is the eldest child, whether he is alive or not. That happened at birth. Andrew will always be the second child.

Primogeniture means the eldest child of Charles inherits (William), in preference to his younger brother Andrew.

Then the firstborn of that person. George.

That's the line of succession today. Charles, William, George. The line goes down through Charles.


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 Post subject: Re: Andrew, (I think)
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:30 pm 
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unlike the Dutch, where it is a normal method of succession, our constitution, though unwritten, does not support routine abdication. The last time it happened it nearly brought the monarchy down, and would have done had the Windsors had issue (and without the character and charm of Elizabeth of Glamis).

Even where the monarch is patently unfit to rule, we appoint Regent.


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 Post subject: Re: Andrew, (I think)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:40 am 
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Sorry to have to resort to Wiki, but someone has decided how it goes!

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_ ... ish_throne


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 Post subject: Re: Andrew, (I think)
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:37 pm 
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Unable to read your link, but Wiki is not a definite source.

It is written by people like us. Anyone can contribute to Wiki, In fact I am actually a contributor to Wiki on such diverse subjects as Welsh rarebit and WWII air weapons!

I could just as easily contribute on the Constitution.


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 Post subject: Re: Andrew, (I think)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:23 pm 
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All these endless arguments about who must be forced into a position for life, from the moment they are born. Whether or not they want it. Whether or not they are suited to it.

EVERY OTHER human being has the 'right' of choice. But the monarch must be a slave. And for what?

So that people, with no lives of their own, can gawp at artificial figures, on screens and magazines? Stale, left over, fairy tales of palaces, kings, queens, princesses.


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 Post subject: Re: Andrew, (I think)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:24 pm 
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Anya wrote:
All these endless arguments about who must be forced into a position for life, from the moment they are born. Whether or not they want it. Whether or not they are suited to it.

EVERY OTHER human being has the 'right' of choice. But the monarch must be a slave. And for what?

So that people, with no lives of their own, can gawp at artificial figures, on screens and magazines? Stale, left over, fairy tales of palaces, kings, queens, princesses.

The queen is deeply strange anyway. What other adult human has taken exactly the same Summer and Winter holidays for the past 60+ years with no variation or novelty whatsoever?

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 Post subject: Re: Andrew, (I think)
PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:42 pm 
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EVERY OTHER human being has the 'right' of choice

Dream on!


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